Though the .223 Remington cartridge below is slightly longer, both cartridges have the same SAAMI maximum overall length of 2.26. thanks and what of the 6.5cm PRC you have a picture of it but dont mention it. Anyway be safe shoot str8 and God bless. .300 Win Mag is your ticket. For competition settings a Zero-Stop optic is a huge advantage. Let your fellow shooters know share this article using the Facebook, Twitter and other social media icons below. I would love if you had any info on a ar-10 or 15 barrel in bolt replacement that would fit in my palmetto guns for the 6.5 prc ???? This required a total of 28 MOA of elevation. Need to drop an Elk at 500 yards? He said stuff. My intent when I purchased the gun was to learn the platform and have the gun available as a home defense firearm. A firearm with a .223 Wylde chamber will usually come with a higher price tag. I shot. A 180 grain bullet traveling over 2300fps at 500 yards? By this time I had scoped the Rock River with a Bushnell AR Optics 3-940 scope with holdover hash marks on the reticle specifically for 55-grain bullets. These short barrel lengths make the guns even handier inside structures, but also . If this is a discussion on long range rifles rounds and the rifles that shoot them, then the .308 shouldnt be in the discussion. Another downside is that the 6mm Creedmoor does not buck the wind as well as its bigger brother, the 6.5 Creedmoor. This hybrid chamber can fire both .223 Remington and 5.5645 NATO ammo with safety and accuracy. As the late, great, legendary Jack O'Connor taught, speed kills (especially on thin-skinned predators). Its parent case, the 6.5 Creedmoor, has an amazing pedigree for long-range shooting. Ken Whitmore is a husband, father of two, and prior service United States Marine. Part of the pressure issues lie outside the cartridges themselves. All the cases were then cleaned ultrasonically and tumbled in walnut media. We haven't gotten any trigger time with it yet, but I'm hoping to do some testing soon. While this may not be the first cartridge that comes to mind for long-range shooting, with an appropriate bullet, the compact .223 Remington or 5.56 NATO is more than capable of shooting over 500 yards with accuracy. He didn't say Elk or Deer or Hogs or Trolls. I use the Wylde chamber in my White Oak Service Rifle. Hornady 223 55 Gr SP Hornady sells a nearly identical soft point as the Federal TRU. It seems that you would have to get 10 barrels of each clambering and a couple cases of match ammo and go through a matrix of measuring accuracy from each barrel mounted on a single receiver multiple times. The 223 bullet has dimensions that seal the contents tighter as compared to the 5.56 bullet. If you took the Statue of Liberty and laid it down, thats almost 20 Statues of Liberty long. Is that as a result of a tighter freebore space in the Wylde rifle? ), 1) no . . After the first class was over I confirmed my zero at 100-yards and put five shots into about a one-inch group. Let us know in the comments below! The backstory on the .223 Wylde. Type your new password and hit button below to confirm it. The object of calling coyotes, is to call them close. The 5.56x45mm NATO and 7.62x39mm are both great, but the better choice is . All kidding aside, the 6.5 Grendel is an amazing cartridge. Learn the 3 most popular shooting stances & more. Able to fire both, but supposedly more accurate than a 5.56 chamber. There is too much to go wrong and game animals aren't targets or enemies. Personalize your experience. At that range everything comes into play, Spin drift of the bullet, altitude, relative humidity, the 9-11 second flight time of the bullet, the Coriolis Effect ( spin of the earth ) etc. This pressure difference makes it potentially dangerous to shoot the 5.56 NATO out of a .223 Remington chamber. Bottom line, I agree its in our best interest and the animals' best interest to get as close as we can. It's primarily used in semi-automatic rifles, but there are some bolt action rifles that use it as well. . Tighter freebore size in a 223 Wylde rifle allows you to shoot .223 ammo with relatively strong accuracy from it than a 5.5645 rifle. So he took matters into his own hands and designed one. Oct 29, 2020. Learn all the important stuff about handgunswith none of the attitude. .308 Winchester has been around for almost 70 years and has served militaries and police forces around the world as faithfully as it has served competition shooters. My advice for the new AR-15 shooter is to go with a 16-inch government-profile (or thicker) barrel. Summary of the .223 Wylde. A .223 will kill a coyote at 500 yards..if you can hit it. If you've only shot 150 yards in the woods, that shot may seem really tough. Get proficient on YOUR time. Click below for a FREE LESSON! With that level of accuracy available, shooting at long range becomes practical because the adjustments made with the optic should track very closely to the ballistics charts or program being used. The 6.5C shoots bullets that are more aerodynamic (higher BC) and at faster speeds.. It works with both 223 and 5.56. Then the 400 yard. Change your name to Karen. The .223 Wylde takes a different engineering approach. I grew up in Montana,hunting both in the mountains in the West and in high school out in the flats in the East part of the state. If I was going to combat today anywhere besides the flattest of deserts, a 16-inch barrel would be my choice. Both are far more exceptional than the 5 you chose. While they are relatively close within 500 yards, at 1,000 yards, the .308 Winchester has 4 feet more drop when you compare a 6.5 CM 140-grain ELD vs. a .308 Win 168-grain ELD. The .223 ranges is effective from 400 to 600 yards but with less energy and knock down power than the .308, the .223 is more useful at shorter ranges. This compensates for the pressure difference in the two when fired from the same case. Due to tighter . His first 5 shots were all hits. Yes, you can. So, why isnt everyone jumping on board the Wylde train? While it is ill-advised to shoot 5.56 ammo out of a weapon chambered for .223, the opposite is perfectly safe. One hell of a compact yet effective short-medium range weapon. Reserving range time is a Range USA Premium and Elite Member exclusive benefit. WildRose Well-Known Member Joined Feb 3, 2011 Messages 15,226 Location N. Texas and S. Africa Apr 23, 2016 #4 Capt. But the velocity with a lighter grain bullet and the case capacity makes for a tremendous long-range round. First deer rifle ever since I was 13 and I keep going back to it (37 now). What is the range of .223? Also the 300 Win? Start at min load and work your way up until you start seeing over pressure signs. They all shoot a heck of a lot better then I do. Model 70 with a 24" Medium wt. Freebore is the space between a rifles chamber and the rifling in the barrel. Freebore is the space between a rifle's chamber and the rifling in the barrel. You'll now receive newsletters of our best articles on techniques, When a cartridge designed for a longer leade (like the 5.56 NATO) is fired out of a chamber with a shorter leade (Were talking about .223 Remington here), it creates a dangerous and almost instantaneous pressure spike. But, many people have killed deer out to 200 yards with a 223. In the meantime, any extra cash you fork out in a .223 Wylde upgrade will be more than made up later in ammo savings. The technique of holding the butt rather than the fore end - not too difficult, At 100 yards, even withh a 16-inch barrel, you will have enough velocity and power to make a clean kill every time. Depending on your ammo and rifle, that can vary between 150 and 400-yards. But it is also a test of the rifles inherent accuracy and the ammunition being used. More than anything, we wanted to see if shooters could expect differences in velocity between the two. towards your level. Just took me a 600+ pound cow elk 1 shot with my creedmore 200 yards away. Lets look at some of the popular calibers. but the whole free recoil thing and light grip will require some attention also. more do I really need more ??? Try as I might I was not able to ring the 1,000-yard plate. They usually start at around $300. I used the JBM Ballistic Calculator to create a Trajectory Chart for use in this test. I think by fine-tuning the load specifically for the PSA barrel much better accuracy is attainable, but time constraints did not allow for further load development. AR -15 .223 Wylde 14.5" Barrel The Shorties 12.5, 11.5, and 10.3 . Total effective range will be dramatically reduced, and you'll have less energy striking your target. That's not really far, but it goes to show you that having the right gear and understanding the science behind it all makes it possible to shoot very far with a very high degree of consistency. But what is 223 Wylde? Would the microscopic differences in chamber size lead to one rifle shooting significantly faster than the other? As a result of the pressure difference, 5.56 rounds also typically produce higher velocities. The 5.56 chamber has angular differences that allow . Rifle Weight (without optic) 7.5 pounds. You would be surprised at what my .25-06 Rem will do. To explain the nuances of rifle twist rates, you can read my previous article about, After reaching out to 1,250 yards on a trip to the amazing High Bar Homestead in Gillette, WY, I am now a firm believer in the .224 Valkyrie. It out performs the 6.5 Creedmore and the .308. To engage a new target at a different range you simply dial the scope back to zero and the turret will stop at the 0 setting so you can dial your new solution. Velocity for the loads ranged between 2720 feet per second and 2800 feet per second. But for the average shooter, the investment in a long-range rifle and optics system can be a major stumbling block. High ballistic coefficient bullets around 100 grains give this round excellent performance out to 1,000 yards. Out of Stock. Been shooting this particular caliber since I bought my first legal rifle at the old age of 18 lol. Accuracy matters. bbl. It just my rifle? When coupled with bullets that have a high ballistic coefficient, the results are impressive. In short, they wanted an intermediate cartridge with more power and a longer effective range than a pistol cartridge, but without the power and recoil of a full-powered rifle cartridge. One afternoon, after shooting a nice antelope at about 500 yards, I was walking back to the truck with the guide, and we were discussing quarter-bores, with the guide extolling his 25-06, the best of the lot. He sighted in his rifle and we immediately dialed to 400 yards. The password should contain at least 8 characters with at least one number or special character. At 100 yards with black powder 50 kaliber. One Mr. Bill Wylde, of Illinois, solved the issue with a bit of engineering genius. Throw in the extra expense of spotting scopes, expensive scopes and precision rifle builds, time for reloading sub MOA cartridges, etc., and one can see a lot of time, money and devotion are required. [ARCHIVED THREAD] - 223 Effective Range w/ 20 Inch Barrel. There's plenty of people that are just fine a 500 yds. I don't care if you have a Win Mag or a Creedmoor and can hit steel from a mile away with it. Thats right, Im talking about long distance shooting with an AR-15 chambered in .223 Remington / 5.56 NATO / .223 Wylde! This versatility allows you to enjoy the exceptional accuracy of .223 Remington loads and the increased velocity and downrange power of the 5.5645 NATO. Our sporting .223 Rem. That's it. A lack of energy is of particular concern in self-defense and hunting situations. Subscribe to Pew Pew Tactical's sales and deals email. Like 16-inch barrels, the 14.5 is light and handy, and still retains decent velocity and range capability. the less stabilized it needs to be to fulfill theoretical maximum effective range performance. Technically speaking, a 223 Wylde rifle has identical chamber angling as a 5.5645 rifle but also brings a .2240 freebore diameter. There's plenty of setups out there where 500 yd shots are simple things. It is a test of the shooters basic marksmanship skills. All the other factors combined still dont add up to that one huge deterrent. $500-$750 (3) $750-$1,000 (8) $1,000-$2,000 (38) $2,000-$5,000 (13 . Odin Works Barrel, Fits AR15, 223 Wylde, 18", Threaded 1/2-28, DMR Profile, Stainless Steel, Rifle Gas Length, Includes Tunable Gas Block B-223-18-DMR-R-TG. Wylde designed a chamber with the dimensions and leade angle of the 5.56 and the free bore diameter of the 223 Rem. . The exact differences are difficult to properly evaluate, because pressure is measured differently for each cartridge. For the TSX muzzle velocities, the 10.5", 14.5", 16", and . It's disconcerting to me that this cartridge always gets left out of the conversation. Again, after getting the wind right, multiple hits were recorded. If you cant see your target clearly and make very precise adjustments, hitting at long range becomes an exercise in frustration. I competed in many 1000 yard and 1500 meter competitions. It honestly feels like cheating when you are behind a quality 6.5 Creedmoor. I then proceeded to use the scopes holdover dots and made consecutive hits at 300-, 420- and 500-yards without a miss. Specifications. With a growing choice of ammo from 90-130 grain projectiles and the benefit of a great ballistic coefficient with the 6.5mm bullet, 500+ yard shooting can be almost boring. Just like Goldilocks, Wylde wanted a chamber that was just right for both cartridges. The .223 Remington, as designed by Stoner with help . Hand-Picked Daily GUN DEALS, and Exclusive Coupons Codes >>>, Federal Premium 69-grain Sierra Match King. Wrong on all accounts. I have many rifle, 6,5 x 57 R 6,5 x 68, 7 x 64 30- 06, 7 RM but the very big satisfaction is shoot. Hopefully, as more shooters become aware of what .223 Wylde offers, well see the price drop and the availability rise. If you choose to shoot long-range with a .223 Remington, I highly suggest shooting longer, heavier bullets with a 1:7 rifle twist. It is a screamer, and with increased velocity comes increased range. Sign up for a membership today and . In a 5.5645 chambered rifle, the leade angle is .162 while the leade in a .223 Remington rifle is .085. When you dial new elevation and windage settings you must remember how many turns or clicks you used in order to reverse the turrets and return to your zero setting. It has a Fred Eichler series muzzle break with a 1/2-28 thread. Of course, if you want to know a LOT more about the 6.5 Grendel you need to read the 6.5 Grendel Shootout! View Latest Price . That he us army has recorded kills with a 5.56 using black hills 77 grain ammo at 1800 yards? After shooting 10 different loads to evaluate accuracy potential I settled on the two loads that exhibited the best accuracy potential. This is especially true if you put a bunch of lead downrange. A personal favorite of mine is the Federal Premium 130-grain Bergers, which at the time of this writing costs $1.50/round. In reference to the gentleman saying a hunter shouldnt take a long range shot, what he meant was He shouldnt take a long range shot. While there are newer cartridges around, many of them are derived from the .308, and all are measured against it. A .223 Wylde chamber is a hybrid rifle chamber designed to allow .22 caliber barrels to safely fire both .223 Remington and 5.5645mm NATO ammunition. Something along the lines of. My results with the chosen loads were not what I needed for long-range shooting. Ammunition choices have increased lately, and Hornady has ammunition with the 87-grain VMAX and 103-grain ELD-X for long-range hunting. This required a total of 28 MOA of elevation. Check a ballistics chart - YMMV. Weve got a dedicated section for the AR-15 here. Our Fusion line is great example. Performance and Accuracy. 7 mm. i think the 50 bmg would make most every ones list on this topic. I haven't done it, but my DOPE chart tells me it should be very doable. when it comes to long range hunting I have to stick to my 7mm mag custom made bolt action, an extremely flat trajectory and shots at over 1000 yards are very common. It combines the highest ballistic coefficient with great accuracy, the highest velocity, and the least damage to the pelt. Factory loads are probably much less than 800yds. SAAMI measures pressure from the middle of the case. Effective accuracy range is much different than effective and ethical killing range on game, but that is something to take into account if the rifle will be used for hunting. With optic mounted: 9.25 pounds. It's basically 6.5cm on roides, yes. To continue my thought process of looking into a 6.5/6.8, I am also looking into simply getting a longer ranged .223/5.56 upper with a chrome moly 20" barrel in 1x7. I sincerely am ready to listen to reason: Why is the .257 Weatherby ignored in these discussions? Learn all the important stuff about handgunswith none of the attitude. I wanted to see if there was any appreciable difference in the PSA upper and the Rock River upper based on twist rate and the accuracy claim by Rock River. However, it is pretty common knowledge that pressures in the 5.56 cartridge are higher than those in the .223. I know someone will. Need to recheck your math when you were talking about the .416 Barrett clinking at 5497m. Made from high-quality materials. All you need is a magazine for the .224 round and the 6.8 SPC mags do a very good job. Enter the 223 Wylde to open up a new world of ammo possibilities. While the Wylde muzzle velocities came in slightly faster, were talking about a one percent difference. After dialing in my zero, I ran out of elevation adjustment at about 24 MOA. I then went about correcting it for the 300-yard target. You can even pick it up at your local neighborhood Wal-Mart. Why? And stay in touch with newsletters of our best articles on techniques, guns, & gear. I kinda thought 7mil rem mag would be there somewhere. Is it the 6.5 CM on steriodes but with out the kick of the 300 win mag? The general rule: It is safe to fire .223 Rem. Next up was the 637-yard plate. Long range shooting is fun. Whats your take on the 6.5 Creedmoor? Once the zero was established shooting was done at various ranges on steel plates with the goal of hitting 1,000-yard targets before the shooting was done. -Impacts 12" below zero at 300 yards. rem. Although it will always be there and ready if the need arises. If you hunt prairie dogs or coyotes with lightweight .223 bullets, this twist rate will do fine for your needs. With todays state-of-the-art machining, most rifles are capable of extremely fine accuracy. The real limitation to stretching the limits is the optic. The differences between .223 Remington and 5.5645 NATO have been debated and explained a million times over. Nothing wrong whatsoever with the 7mmRM. It gives shooters the best of both worlds. With a .223 Wylde chamber, you can easily bounce back and forth between the two loads. Another downside is that the 6mm Creedmoor does not buck the wind, It honestly feels like cheating when you are behind a quality 6.5 Creedmoor. Where? The best accuracy for a 1:9 twist is found with 40-grain to 62-grain copper projectiles. Just play a scratch-off ticket. The SAINT Edge ATC Elite features a B5 Systems Precision Stock that is collapsible and allows for cheek riser and length of pull adjustment. I had my own doubts because I am a bit of a cynic. purchase helps support my work in bringing you more awesome gun and gear articles. The pressure produced by a 5.56 cartridge is measured at the mouth of the case. you want some facts, ask bill wylde. Prior this Ive been an old school kinda guy, shooting offhand and making sure I can hit what I aim at out to 300 yards. we started testing in VIET-NAM, they were great, even at LONG range. Notify me of follow-up comments by email. .223 Remington is probably best known as the AR-15's round and as the predecessor of 5.56 NATO. It may not display this or other websites correctly. This twist rate is very effective at stabilizing heavy rounds upwards of 69-grains and is the twist rate . I think it slightly beats the 224V), I'm from Italy. That's mid-range, not even long-range, by many people's standards. Known for inherent accuracy and for being mild-mannered to . If you take a left turn, you can go through an endless list of wildcat cartridges as well. At the end of the day, your skill and time on a rifle is a much larger factor on how ethical a shot is. Did you consider the transition from supersonic to subsonic and possible bullet tumbling as the range stretched out? The upper was placed on the Rock River lower to take advantage of the match trigger. Match grade M-16 using iron sights, no scope. I can not confirm this, but it seems completely legitimate. passion is big-game hunting, mainly DIY backpack hunting deep in the wilderness. That said, looking at the data, its hard to say there were significant differences between our test rifles. I use it long range and it does just fine. The only thing about the lower would be magazines, .224 Valk uses 6.8 SPC mags. guns & And that requires lengthy driving and an annual membership fee to a club. For a shooter wanting to use the .223 cartridge exclusively as their long-range plinker a 30mm tube scope with more vertical MOA adjustment is in order. I also encourage others to understand that their limits legitimately aren't limits for other people sometimes. In this article, I aim to help you decide which cartridge may be best for you, your wallet, and what you may be able to expect out of these long-range capable cartridges. We dont often get a fairy tale ending when it comes to firearms, but this time we did. The next target on the range is a 24 round plate at 813-yards. Show Results Show Results. Ditto for the .300 PRC, which fixes every shortcoming of the .300 Win Mag and as the name implies (PRC - "Precision Rifle Cartridge") was made for accuracy at extreme long distance. It gets the vibration out of the buffer tube, if it bothers you that much. 8,653. . That is just my opinion. Ammo prices are a bit steeper than the previously mentioned cartridges, but the, While I was in Wyoming, I was able to test and evaluate the .224 Valkyrie with a rifle from Palmetto State Armory. To build off of the PSA .224 Valkyrie Upper you recommended is there any other changes needed to a standard AR-15 lower assembly? Prices vary greatly for rifles, but feeding them is a whole different story even if you reload. Another 5.5 MOA and I was able to make 3 hits consecutively on this very small steel (about a 12"x12" plate). I always favored the .264 Win Mag. Conventional wisdom suggests this twist rate is perfect for bullets in the 55-to 60-grain range, though most will stabilize the common 62-grain FMJ rounds. Even with kinetic energy factored in, after 500 yards, the 6.5 CM pulls away as the leader due to its retained velocity. I may earn a small part of the sale from links to any products or services on this site. That, in turn, increases the longevity of the bolt, springs, and other components. I understand this is an old thread, but want to reply anyway, differences between .223 Rem. For those without a ballistic app or a chronograph or weather/wind measurement unit, the JBM calculators will put your shots very close and allow anyone to dip their toes into the long range shooting game. With a lower receiver assembly in hand a shooter can quickly change uppers to any number of configurations and cartridges that will feed reliably from stock .223 magazines. A called coyote should come in to well under 100 yards, and usually more on the order of between 20-60 yards. Time to figure in some holdover using the reticle and fire away. The Zero-Reset allows the shooter to zero the scope, then with an Allen wrench remove the turret screws, return the turret setting back to zero and lock the turrets in place. Get proficient on YOUR time. Generally, long-range shooting is pure sport and for sport the effectiveness of the round on target is moot. The brass was deprimed with a Lee Universal Decapping Die and the primer pockets swaged with a Dillon Super Swage. Re: Real world accuracy: 223 wylde chamber V 5.56 nato. The rifle used for this little experiment is a stock Rock River Arms Entry Tactical model. If youre not so lucky, the swift jump in pressure could cause a catastrophic weapon failure. The 6.5 CM is, While there isnt much of a cheap alternative for 6.5 CM ammunition, Lucky Gunner lists, Like Alice in Wonderland, you can go down a. Click below for a FREE LESSON! Add to Wish List Add to Compare. The next day we shot again and I tried the 720-yard plates. The .223 is effective from 400-600 meters. "We have several .223 loads featuring a couple different bullet options that are designed especially for hunting. I hate to be so critical here but when you start a list of "best long range cartridges" with the 5.56 you have immediately started off by being disingenuous. Long range shooting makes you appreciate calculators! the flattest cartridge I can find. For example, it can be used in an average room size with minimal ricochet risk. It sure isn't my spectacular marksmanship. With that bullet and velocity what distance do you think that might occur at? Considering the TSX is pretty nicely barrier blind, it seems ideal or people who only ever intend to engage within the POA/POI range of 5.56 with a 50 yard zero (225/250 yards and in).
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