Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. By logging into your account, you agree to our. Cloudflare Ray ID: 7c0ed4b2fd769016 I took it to my mechanic and he too found nothing wrong. Accessing the login page sets the wordpress_test_cookie, a session cookie that tests whether the user's browser (or other user agent) will allow the cookies needed to log in to the administrative dashboard; this cookie normally expires when the user closes their browser (or other user agent). Obviously some sort of mechanism would have been required to determine what gear to select and when to actually shift, but starting with a Wilson box at least some of the problems would have been solved. You can hide the "Support Ate Up With Motor" box and prevent the loading of its embedded content by going to the "Consent Management" tab and switching the "Allow PayPal Button" toggle to "OFF." We arent saying 10RPM of slip is bad, what we are saying is that seems to be the progression point of going out. I havent studied the Wilson preselectors in any great detail, but if youre curious, the applicable U.S. patents are US1404675 and US1796904. Most Torque Converters today also use a friction clutch to lock up the converter at higher speeds to create more fuel efficiency and less slip. Starting in Drive provided a maximum starting ratio of 3.10:1 (a mechanical ratio of 1.44:1 times a nominal torque converter stall ratio of 2.16:1 at around 1,600 rpm), which was better than the early Ultramatic or Dynaflow, but still made for lazy performance, especially with Studebakers six-cylinder engine. *. If your car transmission keeps overheating, you may also notice your transmission starts to act funny, or it may even go into fail date and stay in one gear and not shift at all. Actual shows 640 rpm in drive with the brake on. the only readings i got was for all the electronically controlled aod. Big cars weighing over 3,300 pounds generally need a converter with more torque multiplication. I checked for codes and had none that explained why it happened. However, even at coupling stage, the turbine still turns somewhat slower than the impeller. It's also important not to undersell converter weight as a contributing factor to maximizing acceleration. but my truck has 25k on it and 10k tuned.. so im thinking mines not on the way out and its got 20rpm slip. You can't be sure the slipping or shuddering has anything to do with your torque converter until you check your fluid levels. These a11y cookies normally expire after about seven days, but are removed immediately if you restore the applicable settings to their default values. Second, the nonlinear relationship between impeller and turbine speed can be troublesome. This site uses cookies to help personalise content, tailor your experience and to keep you logged in if you register. Achieving a true 1:1 speed relationship between the turbine and the impeller is not possible with a non-lockup torque converter since it is still a fluid coupling. For all the administrative and login cookies described here, "xx" will be a cryptographic hash while "UID" will be the administrative user's user ID number in this website's WordPress database. (Both turbines, here colored medium blue, were bolted together into a single unit, but had different blade profiles.) A malfunctioning torque converter can have a shudder that comes from the transmission. Many aftermarket companies offer performance lockup torque converters that can provide a higher stall speed without sacrificing the advantages of the lockup converter for highway use. You can email the site owner to let them know you were blocked. Now that we have DISCONTINUED our use of Google Analytics tracking on this website, this cookie no longer functions no additional analytics data will be collected, with or without the cookie. You usually notice your car shuddering because itfeels like it's vibrating. (WordPress and the WordPress logos are registered trademarks of the WordPress Foundation in the United States and other countries. Post I was towing my 5th wheel and the temp went up to 285. I re-used the "new" valve body and decided to try out my original solenoid pack to avoid having to reprogram the PCM with the new calibration for the solenoid pack that came with the recycled transmission. With Torque Pro torque slip shows it at 0-6 rpm at 60 mph and when coming to a stop it jumps to 25-40 rpm then raises to 1400+. The PYPF cookie normally expires in approximately four weeks, the 01A1 cookie in approximately one year. That isnt true of a fluid clutch, whose torus members are free to rotate at different speeds. Cookies whose names begin with "optimizely" are associated with the Optimizely digital experience platform (which is subject to the Optimizely Privacy Policy; the "Privacy" section of the Optimizely Trust Center provides additional information about Optimizely privacy practices, including a link to the Data Processing Agreement that applies to personal data the Optimizely services process on customers' behalf that may be subject to certain regional privacy and/or data protection laws, while their "Cookies and localStorage in the Optimizely snippet" help page provides additional technical information about the cookies and/or similar technologies used by that platform). Input output shaft readings are almost exactly the same when driving. Less than 15rpm is normal and more than that will cause shudder. Your email address will not be published. I did the trans relearn today with the Spartan 275 tune. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. Reach out to your local AAMCO transmission center when youre ready for your efficient, smooth and worry-free ride. A tracking pixel, sometimes known as a web beacon, is a tiny image file that loads from a remote server; it's a type of embedded content (as is the button itself, which loads from the same domain). Your IP: Submitting a comment signifies your acceptance of our. I believe it is labeled as TQSLIP(rpm) under Ford Specific PID's. The knock sensor wire harness connector was loose. check trans fluid. The annulus (purple) is held in reverse, idles in low, and rotates with the sun gears in direct drive. Wallace Racing BACK to Auto Math. This has been a quick jaunt through world of torque converters, but it should at least inspire some intelligent questions to ask your converter company of choice as to the best converter for your application. This is a very slick trick and can be worth up to 2.5 times engine torque! one of the strange quirks of these transmissions is if they are a quart or so low it will feel like the torque converter does not disengage at stop. The one for torque slip desired is 1020 rpm. I was monitoring some Torque converter params for my 4R55E with my in dash scantool. The cookieconsent_status cookie recorded whether or not you consented to analytics tracking and told the website to hide the notification banner; this cookie normally expires after about one year. :whs: I was seeing 200-300 on the 310 with the stock converter but still felt really strong! Most street cars cannot keep the rear tires from spinning if you add too much throttle, and this tends to limit the stall speed. That could be within the margin of error for the sensor. (author diagram). When starting, the fluid clutchs driving torus (the impeller) may reach a speed of 2,000 rpm or more before the driven torus (the turbine) begins to move at all, a point known as stall. (Until late 1954, the transmissions planetary gearset always remain in direct drive unless the driver manually selected Low.) 2011 Flex Limited AWD EcoBoost - Mediterranean Blue Metallic/Silver Roof. Once the clutch plate is fully engaged against the pressure plate, both must turn together at the same speed. Over 10 RPM is real slip. T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. Thu Aug 29, 2019 1:33 am, Post The downside to these converters is that they are heavier and more expensive than non-lockup converters. A lot of bad things can happen to your car when the torque converter starts failing. 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But Ive never heard of anyone going that route. Unless you have tune that keeps the converter unlocked, the converter should've locked. When you purchase through links on our site, we may earn an affiliate commission, which supports our community. For more information about Google advertising, see the "Advertising" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site. When you submit a comment, you may have the option save your information for future comments, storing the info in these cookies. Even though Dyno numbers are just a number, For reference my 2018 Gen3 made 400rwhp/390rwtq stock with 5k miles on a Dynojet,, It hit the speed limiter at 6700. There are several ways to arrange such a clutch, but the common object is to create a mechanical connection between the engine and the transmission input shaft (which otherwise is driven by the fluid clutchs turbine(s)). Unlike a clutch where a friction plate makes physical contact with another plate and ideally the two rotate at exactly the same speed when fully engaged. by SirHandyMan Fri Mar 29, 2019 8:27 pm, Post We are a participant in the Amazon Services LLC Associates Program, an affiliate advertising program designed to provide a means for us to earn fees by linking to Amazon.com and affiliated sites. As the new owner of a 92 Alante with the viscous clutch I wondered what the difference was. For more information about what data PayPal services collect and how that data may be used, visit the "Legal Agreements for PayPal Services" page to review the PayPal Privacy Statement and Statement on Cookies and Tracking Technologies that apply in your location (the Statement on Cookies and Tracking Technologies that applies to each region is linked from within the applicable PayPal Privacy Statement). Being a fluid coupler, your car's torque converter relies on transmission fluid to operate correctly. You must be at least 18 to comment. As you can see I was experiencing multiple issues, all of which were exacerbating the clutch slippage and/or shuddering issue. If you shop at Amazon.com (for anything), use this link to support FordFlex.net! (Those pages do not currently discuss the storage of data in your browser (or other user agent) using technologies other than cookies, e.g., in web storage.) I would be surprised if this is your issue at 81,000 miles. check out the. The impellers spun by the engine's crankshaft. When the two problems are combined, it could mean your torque converter is failing. Do you want them slipping when driving? This is why a disc clutch must be disengaged or the transmission shifted to neutral whenever the vehicle stops. Members can start their own topics & subscribe to topics Cookie Notice At some point Ford modified the wiring to include a thick rubber insulator on the wires that extended beyond the edge of the intake manifold to prevent the chaffing. The TC is a viscous coupling. As youll see if you look at the first one, the original iteration had three speeds forward and one reverse, for which it requires four epicyclic gearsets. would it work,yet throw out aod default codes. by Silver Flex SEL. 1. and 2. However, Wilson gearboxes were quite bulky and complex because the nature of their operation required a separate set of epicyclic gears for each ratio, including reverse. if someone would have put in a used ecu ,fron a electric controlled aod. Heat is the enemy of any automatic transmission and will radically reduce its life span if not mediated by an efficient trans cooler. When you coast in gear, the transmission attempts to drive the engine crankshaft, whose inertia causes a braking effect. This sounds really great, and it is. We thought 10 was bad 2 years ago. This setting is stored in your browser (or other user agent) in the gdpr[consent_types] cookie described in "Privacy and Cookie Preferences" above, so if you delete that cookie or access the Ate Up With Motor website from a different device, browser, or user agent, you will need to adjust this setting again if you still wish to hide the box. Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. In fact, Cadillacs chief engineer ordered an early Daimler Double Six with the Wilson and Laurence Pomeroys Fluid Flywheel for evaluation purposes. The iThemes Security plugin may also set the itsec-hb-login-xx cookie, which helps to protect the site against "brute force" hacking attempts; that cookie normally expires in about one hour. It will also integrate that knowledge with what type of car and transmission consumers are buying. In certain cases, multiple iterations of either or both of these cookies may be set. Locking the converter with a scan tool bypasses the tune and verifies everything mechanical is in order. Its job is to smoothly convert engine torque into hydraulic pressure that your transmission uses to engage and shift gears. In this diagram, the yellow arrows show the power flow in second gear. I just checked it yesterday and it was right at the full indicator with the transmission properly warmed up. Torque converter seals can get damaged for several reasons. I was running the KEM 250 and 310 tunes. We may sometimes present an alternative version of the sidebar offering different options, which may set the a11y-desaturated, a11y-high-contrast, and/or a11y-larger-fontsize cookies if you change those settings. In this design, the two basic components in the fluid coupling are the impeller blades (the drive side), which are connected to the engine, and the turbine blades (the driven member), which are splined to the input shaft of the transmission. For additional information about how Google uses cookies and/or other technologies that may collect and/or process personal information, see the "Technologies" section of their Google Privacy & Terms site and the "Our advertising and measurement cookies" section of their Google Business Data Responsibility site, which includes a detailed list of cookies associated with Google advertising and measurement products. by Silver Flex SEL. Lockup clutches were used in some nonautomotive torque converters before World War II, but the first regular-production automotive application was the 1949 Packard Ultramatic Drive, which established a model for subsequent transmission designs. Remember, a torque converter is a coupler between the engine and transmission. The information below will outline the most common torque converter issues and their solutions. The transmission fluid is an important part of the torque converter in that it is used to provide the fluid coupling and smooth starts and without stalling the engine when the vehicle is stopped in gear. 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I cant imagine the hours of work which you must have put into understanding these various transmissions, to say nothing of writing up a description that a simpleton like me could (mostly) understand. It took the addition of a small device called the stator to increase the efficiency of the fluid coupling and transform it into a torque converter. I had "guessed" that it could have been a valve body issue when trying to diagnose on my own and I replaced that to no avail. He wondered if something internal may be damaged and the tow tune showed it up not allowing the torque converter to unlock soon enough which caused the bog down issue. VerticalScope Inc., 111 Peter Street, Suite 600, Toronto, Ontario, M5V 2H1, Canada. Torque converter clutch slip Scan tool values 99 GMC Pickup GM's 6L80 HP Tuning, DoD, and Torque Converters! scheme, but it does contribute. California residents also have the Right to Opt-Out of the sale of their personal information see the Do Not Sell My Personal Information page. Any slip is bad. About Us -
When it comes to automatic-equipped street machines and drag-race cars, the torque converter is a welded-up magic box that few enthusiasts know much about. Unfortunately, additional stall speed also increases the slippage in the converter. Larger-diameter converters are usually more efficient and deliver less slippage, while smaller-diameter converters offer more stall speed and more slippage. This created the demand for a lockup converter employing an internal clutch inside the converter to directly connect the turbine with the input shaft of the transmission just like a manual-transmission clutch. Its weird its not noticable as even a new soft engaging lock up but it acts somewhat like it has one. One of the fundamental differences between a fluid clutch (a fluid coupling or torque converter) and a mechanical plate clutch is slippage. AE parameters when looking for tranny slip? The multiplication factor is based on the speed difference between the turbine and impeller. It is not common for the knock sensors to fail, especially at such a low mileage. If the engine is not running smoothly and/or delivering consistent power, it can cause fluctuation in the "Desired" versus "Actual" torque converter clutch slippage along with a surging feeling. Desired is what the PCM is commanding and Actual is how much it is actually slipping measured in RPM. The impeller pump receives the transmission fluid once it's delivered. (If you need to review or change these settings after you accept, you can do so from the Privacy Tools page.) (These cookies are not usually set for administrative users, since comments they submit while logged in are associated with their user ID number and user profile information rather than a manually entered name and email address.). Diagnosing a potential Torque Converter problem with a Scan tool. In this schematic of a basic three-element torque converter with lockup clutch, the torus cover, lockup clutch pressure plate, and impeller (red) all rotate with the engine flywheel. Packard achieved that goal by treating the engagement of the lockup clutch like an automatic gear change. There may be more than one of these cookies, particularly if you access several password-protected posts with different passwords. It may not display this or other websites correctly. The usual strategy is to disengage the clutch at idle (or just off idle) and during acceleration and then then engage the clutch for cruising. 6 speed/8 speed RWD/FWD Transmission Tuning (incl T43, T76, T87) T43 Torque Converter Desired Slip. by Silver Flex SEL. if you dont hammer on it everyday it will last you a long time.. my stock converter had 350 rpms of slip on the 310 tune and the truck still had all kinds of power even locked. Think of a lock TC as the clutches in your tranny. Remember, you don't experience either symptom unless you have the wrong amount of fluid or the wrong fluid in the transmission. Part 3 of 3 High Performance Academy Sonnax and SIU - Mega Torque. (Vimeo and the Vimeo logos are trademarks of Vimeo.com, Inc., registered in the U.S. and other countries. This is most noticeable from about 1200-1800 rpm. another masterpiece. Change Background Color (Note: This option sets cookies on your device to manage your color settings; see the Cookie Notice for details.). Please include what you were doing when this page came up and the Cloudflare Ray ID found at the bottom of this page. If the payment button is visible, it may set the third-party cookies PYPF (via paypalobjects.com, which is owned by PayPal, Inc.), which appears to check whether or not you are a logged-in PayPal user, possibly to facilitate the PayPal user login process, and/or 01A1 (via abmr.net, which is owned by Akamai Technologies), which stores certain technical information about your device and browser (or other user agent), possibly to facilitate the login and shopping cart functions. I am however, now chasing some unusual engine noises which are a different issue entirely. In second, the low band was released and the multi-disc clutch engaged, causing both ring gears to rotate at turbine speed. (Google, Google Analytics, and other related marks and logos are trademarks of Google LLC. I think you probably have some time as long as you dont pound on it. The good news is, if it is just your torque converter that is having issues since it's a self-contained unit, you may not need to replace or rebuild your whole transmission. Performance & security by Cloudflare. The space ahead of the clutch formed a hydraulic cylinder containing an annular steel piston that acted as a pressure plate. i take it your a writer and not a trans guy ,but maybe someone could answer the question.
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